$100 Fine for Pat Onstad. A Hundred Freakin’ Dollars. Oh, Did I Mention? MLS Are Cowards
By: Laurie | November 4th, 2009
So back when I was about five, my family got really bad service in a restaurant. So bad that my parents very uncharacteristically decided not to leave a tip.
Later, when we were driving away, I started crying.
“What’s wrong?” says my mom. Says I: “I forgot my nickel!”
My mother was, of course, horrified. Because leaving no tip is kind of…ambiguous. Leaving a nickel tip is a slap-in-the-face insulting statement.
That’s kind of how I feel about Pat Onstad’s “punishment” for his shoulder slam on Fredy Montero. It was announced today and is…
$100.
No, I didn’t leave off a zero. That’s: One. Hundred. Dollars. Officially for “lack of respect for the game.”
Because no punishment at all could in theory kind of mean, “Oh. We forgot.” A hundred dollar fine, on the other hand, means: “Pfft. Who cares?”
We care, MLS. Way to enforce your rules and tell players that this is not the way you want them to behave.
I am officially disgusted.
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Here’s a question…if this happened to Christiano Ronaldo…would anyone care? Or would everyone be sending flowers to Onstad
Posted from
United States
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Mouthing off and pushing in American football is seldom a penalty; however, knocking a guy down after a play is ALWAYS a personal foul. So, no, it would not be offsetting penalties. It’d be 15 yards from the spot of the foul.
Posted from
United States -
Yes Hi I reffed Football for 5 years…was recruited to do Semi-Pro games, was on my way to NCAA Division 1. Yes you would have offsetting penalties because one player instigated and another retaliated. Otherwise what would you do with the instigator? He just gets to cause problems and doesn’t get punished for it? That’s not how you control the game.
Posted from
United States -
This is laughable. Do you actually watch the sport? I do and I played in college. You’re hard pressed to see this scenario actually play out where both the instigator and the retaliation are both flagged. Why? because very-very seldom does an official catch the originating foul. However, they almost always catch the retaliation.
Furthermore, unless you’re reffing Pop Warner or perhaps High School ball, mouthing off to opposing players is not a penalty, it’s an accepted part of the game. Not one its finer qualities, but still a part of the game.
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United States -
Yeah you’re right about the Mouthing off part. However you said the instigator is seldom flagged because he’s not caught. Well what if he was caught? Salazar went to his assistant and asked him, maybe he saw something he didn’t like Montero instigating.
You’re right though I’d be lying is I said mouthing off to a player would be considered a foul, but it is noticed. Some people get very upset about that sort of thing.
Posted from
United States -
I’m a big believer in Karma. I think Onstad fouled Montero, deserved the card and probably deserved more than a $100 fine. With that said, Montero has had it coming and probably then some with some of his antics throughout the season. Montero has made a reputation and a name for himself: some bad and some good. Onstad also has a reputation and it’s wasn’t by accident that he was up for the fair play award this year.
I thought the match was officiated quite well and the referee used great discretion throughout the match. Us fans, we have the benefit of slow motion replays and it’s easy to point out errors and omissions.
Posted from
United States -
When do we find out who’s refereeing the game? This is going to be brutal.
Posted from
United States -
We should find out in a couple of days. The good news is, it won’t be Toledo. He’s reffing the game tomorrow night!
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Personally, I’m hoping we get Alex Prus.
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United States -
Dustin, you would give offsetting penalties when words are responded to with bodily contact?
No, you wouldn’t. Not if you wanted to move up to the next level. No words are cause for bodily contact in a game. NONE.
Montero was carded due to the scrum afterword demanding offsetting cards, and he was picked because of the reputation he earned.
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Dave you’re kinda stating some absolutes there, not exactly smart, just bullheaded. Also I pointed out that it wasn’t just words…it was contact that Montero did. This is coming from a 3rd party another referee who saw the pushing that Montero did.
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United States -
It’s kind of like the whole Arsenal “simulation” thing. UEFA said Eduardo dived and then big scary Arsenal puffed out it’s cheeks and UEFA said “Oh no just kidding it wasn’t a dive”. It’s worse than just ignoring the whole matter because they admitted it was a dive and then revoked it because Arsenal were a big powerful club.
Posted from
United States -
Fredy needs to stop standing around playing dumb in the box. Onstad’s box. Not Fredy’s. Beat it kid.
Posted from
United States -
Dustin, you have a bad habit of citing unseen authorities without actually giving specifics or evidence. You say your referee friend saw pushing by Montero, when did this contact happened? Watching the replay from the game, Montero has some normal 50/50 jostling with one of the Houston defenders as the corner comes in, and then when the ball goes out, Onstad snaps and body checks Fredy. If that’s the contact your source is talking about, that’s extremely weak. And even if the refs want to say that Fredy committed a foul in that sequence, that still doesn’t excuse Onstad deliberately and aggressively knocking Fredy down. Also, if what Fredy did was worthy of a yellow, then the Sounders were due a penalty on the earlier corner where Onstad goes out of his way to shove Fredy in the back of the head.
At no point have you made a case for why the decision on the field was correct. You’ve said that you don’t consider Onstad’s behavior violent conduct; what are your criteria for that judgment? You’ve cited an anonymous source saying that Montero did some pushing and that therefore justified Onstad’s response. What Law of the Game are you using for support of this theory of justified retaliation? In what situations is it acceptable to knock down a player after a play? You come and post comments on this blog claiming experience and knowledge as a ref. As such you should be able to lay out the reasoning for the decision element by element.
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Even better, quote the relevant IFAB or USSF interpretations that support your view. You have claimed that you work hard at being a referee and a hard working referee should know these things.
Posted from
United States -
Carlos I used to do that, cite sources and stuff. Now I save all that for the Seattle Sounders forums, and just say stuff here. You got my number, you’ve beaten me into submission. I just don’t care enough to cite the sources here to argue with you about it.
You’re not looking for answers Carlos, you’re looking to fight me every step of the way. That’s great it’s a good quality to have, if you were on my referee team and you were challenging me to be better. You’re not though, you’re just some guy on the internet, just like me. So I’m gonna state my opinion here and not cite anything, not show my work, and you can say the reason is because I really don’t know what I’m talking about. You have that right I certainly can’t stop you, I just don’t care enough to argue with you while doing homework to prove it. I feel I have enough experience in this that I can make judgment calls just like I do on the field.
Also I said it was a 3rd party source I didn’t say I vouched for it or that I saw it happen myself.
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Are you seriously crying about the fine only being $100? First, Montero embelished the whole ordeal. So, the card and fine are a joke anyway. Second, the $100 fine to an MLS-er is relevant considering their salaries.
Posted from
United States -
Fredy needs to stop embellishing, but i don’t see where fredy play acted here. if you aren’t balanced, a bump can knock you off your feet. fredy stayed in a ball on the ground after it as there was a bum-rush by all the players – i’m sure he didn’t want to be kicked or hit further. i didn’t see fredy selling anything on this occassion. what i saw was Onstad sell a hit to his face when no one hit his face – ljungberg even called him out on this “you know better”, ljungberg said.
Onstad deserved a yellow (i won’t say red as that would be ref discretion… i don’t think i’d dictate the outcome of the game like that). BUT fredy deserved no yellow this time. i fully believe that fredy’s reputation earned him his yellow here.
what makes it so bad for me is that fredy got a yellow for doing nothing wrong this time, not that onstad wasn’t given a red. i do think the $100 fine is absurd though. why bother?
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United States -
abe, pat makes 181K this year.. $100 is .055% of his salary.
hardly anything that will make him think twice about his actions next time.
and for the 100th time. montero’s actions has NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT ONSTAD DID. it could have been jaqua on the receiving end, or evans, or anyone…. and onstads actions were the same.
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United States -
Well, Dustin, I’m not surprised that you’re evading the questions and refusing to back up your opinions. It’s your consistent pattern, after all.
What are you afraid of, anyway? If your judgment is good, then your opinions should be supported by the Laws of the Game and the IFAB and USSF interpretations. If it’s not supported, then maybe your judgment isn’t what you think it is, and you’re therefore shortchanging the players on the field when you’re out there with a whistle.
As for looking for answers or not, I would take them if you ever offered them. In the past you’ve asked me direct questions and I’ve answered them directly, and yes, I have gone and looked things up to make sure I was correct in my thinking. Because that’s what an adult who takes responsibility for his opinions does. If the data shows I’m wrong, then I step up and admit it and try to learn more so I come to the correct answers the next time.
As you mentioned, we’re both just guys on the internet and therefore no one has any way of knowing what we say about ourselves is true. You claim to be a ref; who knows if you really are? You claim to have experience, but of course none of us can verify that. You say you know refs working games and have inside knowledge received from them and yet again, we have no way of knowing if that’s true or not. So if you’re unwilling to actually defend your opinions, why should anyone believe anything you have to say?
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Or I could just share my opinion as a referee and a student of the game, and let you take it or leave it as you will.
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If you are a ref and student of the game, that is.
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Or you’ll stop me?
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“Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.”
(Sorry, sorry, couldn’t resist. Love to you both.)
Posted from
United States -
I can’t be mad at using humor and Monty Python to elevate an argument Laurie.
Posted from
United States
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