

Let’s Talk About Tim Weyland and the MLS Referees
By: Laurie | May 11th, 2009This post is for both those who think Tim Weyland is a disgrace and those who think I’m being unnecessarily harsh on him. (Yes, both of you.)
(Oh, sorry. I do actually respect all opinions here and want to hear from you if this is you. If we can engage in impassioned debate coming from all sides, we eventually arrive at common middle ground. And that’s a good thing.)
Some things that have come out since the game, and some things to think about:
- There is a long history and apparent bad blood between Sigi and Tim Weyland. Should MLS take this into account when assigning referees? Will Weyland ever referee another game in Seattle? If so, will he be able to keep from reacting emotionally? If not, will he make it off the pitch alive?
- MLS hands out red cards in approximately 15% of games. We have used up our quota for the first 2/3 of the season with only a quarter of the season gone.
Also, MLS hands out nearly double the percentage of reds per game played as the EPL. Kasey Keller said post-game that in England, reds were given out for truly dangerous play and never for “ticky-tacky fouls.” He’s obviously disgusted. I watch a lot of European football, and I’m amazed by it too.
Are we really twice as dangerous? Yes, we have been in the past, but I’m not seeing it as much this year. And yet the number of reds is increasing rather than decreasing. And do US Soccer’s refereeing reviews make the situation better or worse? Is there a point where they should stop saying, “Hand out more cards” (which is what most of their reviews say) and instead say, “We now have a good balance between safety and flow of the game”?
- Tim Weyland handled the Galaxy-Chivas game in exactly the same way as our game yesterday. Three reds, nine yellows. John Carver, formerly of TFC, was recently fined for calling Weyland “a disgrace.” So no, it’s not just us.
- James Riley was stupid to allow himself to be goaded into responding. (I still love him.) No arguments from me, and probably not from anyone. But Berhalter has admitted to holding onto the ball to intentionally slow down play — definitely a foul, and probably a card — and he faced no punishment whatsoever. Quote:
“He wanted to take it quickly, I picked it up and was trying to delay the kick”
- I was sitting right behind Jhon Kennedy Hurtado when he was desperately trying to get back on the field after being injured. At the time it felt bizarre — as if the officials were intentionally ignoring him in one of those “It’s my ex. Don’t make eye contact” kind of ways. At the time I wrote it off, but now it seems like a smaller part of something bigger. Or am I just being paranoid?
When I was a Galaxy fan, I always laughed at talk of an institutional pro-Galaxy bias. I’m not laughing now.
- I wrote this as a comment in a previous post, then realized it sums up my feelings on Weyland — and on good referees vs. bad referees — pretty well.
Later, it was as if Weyland decided to punish the team for the negative energy coming at him from the crowd. (Or maybe it’s because of bad blood with Sigi, as others are reporting. That could be it, too.)
The best referees interact with the players in a way that reassures them that a valid attempt has been made to reach the right decision, even when it goes against them. Based on this criteria, Weyland has to be the worst. How often do you see a referee whose method of operation is to intentionally ignore players except to hand out cards?
We see plenty of other referees who are able to stick to their guns and keep the game moving while still acknowledging that players might disagree with the occasional call. The best referees can calm down situations with a brief smile, give players a quick nod as if they’re listening, follow up with an “I’m sorry, this is what we saw and the call stands.” The situation doesn’t escalate, the players walk away satisfied if not happy, and there is actually less delay to the game. (How much time did we lose to the brawl?)
Weyland does none of that stuff — he just hands out cards for dissent, which encourages rather than discourages the game to spiral out of control, because in the heat of the moment it feels — and frequently is — unfair.
Also, Sigi was quoted as saying one of our players heard the fourth official calling for a card for Berhalter — something Weyland chose not to act on.
So what do you think about the referees in general, and about Weyland in particular?
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Comments
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Weyland is an embarrassment to the MLS. As long as our referees behave emotionally and hand out reds for offenses that would not warrant them in other major world leagues, American soccer will always feel like a the little kid on the playground. I’m not suggesting that refs allow dirty play to try to alleviate some sort of American inferiority complex when it comes to soccer, but rather that we need to set the same standards as the best leagues in the world, and allow beautiful soccer to flourish. Further, I think Weyland should have called more fouls, just with fewer cards. Much earlier than the absurd cards, he had already lost control of the game and the galaxy was confident of their ability to make certain dirty challenges and get away with it.
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This really is not Weyland’s fault. He is what he is, a lousy referee. This is MLS’ fault. They have a terrible referee that has been called out in numerous games and the league still has him refereeing games.
I just don’t think the league wants to admit that they have managed the ref problem well. They will put their head in the sand and hope no one will notice.
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So I was not at this game (I am on vacation at the beach). I gave my tickets to a friend who, while has not been following the Sounders specifically, is a long time soccer fan as well as a player. Basically, she knows soccer and is impartial towards both teams.
Anyway, she was so disgusted with the refereeing during the game that she kept sending irate text messages to me about it. She allowed that the level of play in the MLS has increased since she last watched it, but that the refereeing was so egregiously awful that she could hardly stand to watch the game.
So there. An outside opinion.
I know that being a ref is a hard, thankless task, but that does not mean that they should not be held to certain standards. Can this guy get fired?
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This is form the Seattle times this morning:
Marshall was told that Weyland once retired from soccer.
“I don’t think he should have come back.” Marshall said. “I think he should give it up.”
Hilarious
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i think it was pretty clear that weyland is in fact still “retired” he was at least asleep or looking the wrong way for a great deal of the match. not his best day on the pitch.
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I’d just like to make a couple of points about this game after watching it a second time to try and assess Tim Weyland.
1) First half was fine, it was refereed very well, with 2 cautions given. First was a very obvious bad challenge by Gordon on Ljungberg which Weyland did very well to punish correctly. I’ve seen the same challenge on Donovan twice this year that refs have just been shouting play on. Second went to Brad Evans who got a angry and the no Penalty call, understandable. As for the possible Penalty I just can’t tell from this one camera angle we’re given, might’ve been might not have been. Overall, this is the kind of first half we’d expect out of Kevin Stott, the best MLS referee in my opinion.
2) Riley deserved a red card for his actions absolutely. It was violent conduct, more specifically striking to the side of the opponents face. Weyland failed to give Berhalter a caution for obvious time-wasting, that’s just reffing 101. Ljungberg probably should’ve gotten a Caution earlier on for dissent, he was on Weyland from the get go and never let off. Even after receiving the card he wouldn’t knock it off, he’s a good player, he should stick to playing.
3)Tim Weyland has never been a stellar referee in my opinion. I’ve watched games and wondered what the hell he was calling lots of times. However I think his level of refereeing is at the same level as the MLS playing. They’re just not that good, and lots of times they can’t just play the game without constant whining and arguing. Or just cussing out the ref which if you’re a lip reader is obvious (Barrett comes to mind).
On a final note I won’t defend Tim Weyland as a good referee and he made some definite mistakes in this game. I’d like to point out though that the people with the greatest power to dictate and influence the game are the coaches and the players. It seems to me that blaming the referees is the thing we all go back to when we’re not happy with the results, when looking in the mirror is a much more constructive thing to do.
Laurie I liked the stuff you brought up though, most specifically what makes a good referee. If you want to see a good referee perform I suggest watching the FC Dallas vs Houston Dynamo game this week, Kevin Stott does a great job, though I hardly ever see him smile or chat.
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at the match i really couldnt determine much regarding Riley from my seats on the other side of the field. However, from reviewing the video of the exchange i would disagree that he deserves the red. he is as much escaping being manhandled as he is hitting anyone. rewatch the video a few times.
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Dustin, I was watching parts of the replay of the Columbus-KC game today and thought Jorge Gonzalez did a good job of keeping control of a game that was getting similarly chippy. And Columbus’ goalkeeper did get a yellow for delay of game.
All of this is making me realize how much of the difference betwee excellent and awful refs is in the intangibles.
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Ok, so I’m a Galaxy fan through and through, and yes, I think Weyland is a terrible referee.
HOWEVER, if you watch even the highlights posted on mlsnet.com, you can see Berhalter pick up the ball to waste time (which I admit, should be a yellow), but Riley was STUPID to grab Berhalter and throw him to the ground and violently grab the ball from his hands. SECONDLY, he was STUPID to make any sort of motion with his hands towards Magee’s head, regardless if Magee flopped or not. Maybe if Riley was as smart as Magee he would have flopped when Magee grabbed his shoulder/neck area.
I’m a fan of Seattle when they’re not playing LA, but COME ON SOUNDERS FANS!!! Riley deserved the red regardless of whether or not Jaqua deserved a PK or Berhalter deserved a yellow. Riley went out of his way to make himself seen, and regardless of how you feel about Weyland, he made the RIGHT call.
Sounders fans need to stop whining and get over it. LA is playing defensive soccer and Seattle wasn’t prepared for it…
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There’s a couple of really good refs in MLS right now, Jorge is one of them. I’ll check out that game to see what you mean.
At referee week in review they supported Freddie’s sending off.
http://ussoccer.com/articles/viewArticle.jsp_14286863.htmlI realize Sounders fans feel hard done by Red Cards lately but sometimes these things happen. I don’t think the Sounders are a violent or mean team, they just make mistakes like all good teams. Freddie leading with an elbow, mistake. Riley getting riled up, mistake. It happens.
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“All of this is making me realize how much of the difference betwee excellent and awful refs is in the intangibles.”
I think this goes with my point about blaming the refs first before looking at reasons for things going south. I’ve seen teams go off hating referees for decisions that were 100% correct. Similarly I’ve seen refs screw up games completely and yet players at the end are shaking their hands and being very nice. It’s a weird strange game between players and referees, if anything it’s always interesting and that’s why I like it.
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In response to Dustin, how many people are honestly claiming Riley didn’t deserve the Red? If people are saying that, then I completely agree with you — Riley completely lost his cool, and the punishment was warranted.
I don’t think that’s where our complaints are coming from though. At least, that’s not why I’m complaining.
I’m unhappy with the fact that at best much of the calls were inconsistent, nonsensical, out of control, and at worst bordered on favoritism. I’m not even arguing that the outcome would have been all that different. I’m just pointing out that as a fan — and as someone who has a lot of friends who are learning about the MLS and becoming fans — the game was a disappointing and frustrating chore to watch thanks to the officiating.
Here’s a tip to the MLS: if you want to stay on the good side of Seattle fans, you really don’t want to send your worst refereeing crew to Qwest until we’ve completely gotten over Superbowl XL.
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Jordan: Mostly it was Kasey Keller and Sigi that were “Disappointed” with the red card.
Although Kasey thought he should’ve gotten away with handling the ball outside the box on a clear shot, so he’s not exactly an expert.
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I’ve been at every home game this season except this one. I gave my tickets to this game to some colleagues of mine at work. I ended up watching the DVR’d broadcast Sunday evening and was appalled. The refs were bad, LA’s strategy was an insult to the league and the game, and we showed a severe lack of patience and creativity in the face of LA’s sloppy play.
The biggest thing I saw that led to pretty much everything else controversial was the (sometimes blatant) delay of game tactics incorporated by the Galaxy. The Jaqua penalty was just one call and honestly I think it could have gone either way. However, most of the pushing and penalties were an effort by LA to compensate for what they knew was a sub-par defense. It seemed that with every foul they would have to tie their shoes or fix their socks before play could continue. By the second half, Riley had had enough and attempted to grab the ball out of Berhalter’s hands at which point his LA teammates came to his aid and provoked Riley into doing something stupid. Honestly, I think the ref is responsible for this as he didn’t take any steps to eliminate LA’s delay tactics at all.
The part where we failed is that we did not do a good job taking advantage of LA’s lazy strategy. There were a few plays where Zakuani and/or Le Toux easily sprinted past their defender (sometimes with, sometimes without the ball). Why didn’t we create more of those opportunities with some more aggressive deep passes? Sometimes these caused us to lose the ball, but more often it worked out and turned into a decent shot (and one goal). We failed to capitalize on this more often and instead allowed ourselves to get frustrated and angry.
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Sorry for the LONG link, I’m sure you’ve probably seen this Laurie. I wanted to point this out to anyone else because it is interesting, I have several opinions about it which I’m sure you’re all dying to hear
. Just one thing…the Keller handling foul was questionable? I didn’t know it could get anymore cut and dry than that.Posted from
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I’m a sounder’s fan through and through. I’m offended by Colin’s last comment on Seattle ‘getting over the whining!’ That’s easy to say when you’re on the other side knowing that the game was called in your favor and knowing that Galaxy is well-known for rough play. Colin’s assessment the Riley deserved a red, yes, I can agree. He never ever should have grabbed the other player, even if the other player did grab him too.
What I’d like to hear from Galazy fans is not “quit whining, it was a bad day for the ref” but some accountability that their team makes mistakes too (as our Sounders do as well). Galaxy and Galaxy fans make mistakes too, and that fans all over the WORLD are in agreement that the outcome of the game would have been far different if we’d gotten our PK, and if other questionable calls had been called more fairly.
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Oh, and one more thing. The so called “defensive play” that Galaxy plays? I wasn’t aware that that included hacking, tripping, and pushing. I’ve played soccer for years and have grown up as a stopper. Never once in defensive plays, did my coach tell me that being physical to the degree that you’re potentially causing harm to the other players was ok.
A comment like that is purely naiive (or oddly defensive). I think Galaxy wasn’t prepared to have a team more skillful then they. And when they could run them down, the hack.
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