Poll: Is “Embellishment” (or, okay, Diving) Ever All Right?
By: Laurie | July 9th, 2009To make this a neutral and non-Sounders-oriented post, here’s a clip from World Cup 2006 — a little interchange between Thierry Henry of my beloved Equipe de France (long story, don’t ask) and Spain’s Carles Puyol.
If you are a France fan like I am, you have spent the last three years desperately trying to defend Henry here and explain his contention that this isn’t technically a dive. And probably failing as miserably as I have.
But Henry said: “Spain’s left-back Mariano Perina was going to win the ball so I don’t know why Puyol cut across me, but he did. I don’t cheat.”
There’s another quote, which I can’t find right now, where he also says that this was one of many infractions by Puyol which the referee was not calling. When he challenged the ref over this, he was apparently told, “But you didn’t go down.”
And so the next time it happened, he did go down. Holding his face. Thus giving France a goal off a free kick, and the above clip, which will forever be the first thing that shows up if you google “Thierry Henry dive.”
The issue of diving came up for us on Tuesday in the post-game comments of some of the KC players and coaches after our 89th-minute penalty.
Based on Rick Morrison’s photo below, I’m pretty sure what happened on Tuesday night was not a dive. (Some KC fans — and coaches — remain unconvinced. You can weigh in on the subject and vote in a poll on this very question over at Seattle Soccer Examiner.)
But the thing that interests me about the penalty is that before the photo turned up I was hearing a lot of people say that even if it was a flat-out dive, it was justified because the referee should have given about three other penalties (and countless fouls, plus a few yellows) but didn’t.
Which makes me curious. If Thierry Henry, above, was a Sounder, and the game had been miserably refereed the way Tuesday’s game was, would this be okay? Or would it be okay regardless of how the rest of the game had played out? Or is a little (or a lot of) embellishment okay, as long as it’s not a flat-our dive? Or do you consider this kind of behavior a black mark on the game and always wrong?
Your grandma and your second-grade teacher aren’t watching. So tell us how you really feel.
P.S. I’d love for you to tell me in the comments where you think the Henry clip, above, falls on the embellishment vs. dive spectrum.
Is Diving (Or Embellishment) Sometimes Okay?(survey software)
 |
MLS Forums | MLS Results |  |
 |
Category: Seattle Team News
Tags: Diving, Fredy Montero, Seattle Sounders FC, Seattle Team News, South American Futbol, Thierry Henry, US Open CupSubscribe
|
Print
|
Share
      |
Comments | Add your comment
-
I actually dove as I voted in the poll.
Posted from
United States
-
Montero clearly did NOT dive. Watch the video, which isn’t the best angle but it’s obvious that Montero didn’t fall until the right foot went down, which is the exact instant captured above. His foot would be caught up on Hartman’s upper right arm.
Posted from
United States -
Because of the standard stated by the ref, you’re hurting your team if you don’t “sell” fouls that actually happen. Hartman did foul Montero, we can see that from the picture. What’s the virtue in Montero shrugging it off and maybe not catching up to the ball or missing his shot? None.
What separates that from diving is whether a foul actually occurred. If yes, then that’s fine. If no, then you’re diving, and should get a yellow.
Posted from
United States -
So my question Carlos: if we go back to the original video, is it okay to go down holding your face for this kind of infraction?
(Not judging or disagreeing, at all. Just curious what others think.)
Posted from
United States -
Basically, my definition of diving is playacting in order to convince a ref that a foul occurred when in reality it didn’t. Embellishment would be selling a foul that actually did happen to make sure your team earns their remedy for the opposition’s transgressions.
So no, it’s not okay to go down holding your face if you get a shoulder bump that hits nowhere near your face. However, it is okay to go down holding your face if opposition player does hit you in the face, even if it’s not much more than a graze. In the first case, the player is trying to convince the ref to call a foul that didn’t happen, and in the second they’re trying to make sure the ref calls a foul that did.
If refs always called perfectly called fouls, then I’d be against the second case also. But since they don’t, I think it’s fair to “make your case”, as it were.
Posted from
United States -
In regards to the Henry video, he could’ve fell down and held his chest instead. He might’ve been trying to get Puyol a red card, which is of course wrong and must be punished as “Simulating.” As per the Laws of the Game.
As a referee I have no problem with Embellishment, I actually oftentimes like it when it happens. Players are often tugged by the shirt as they run by someone, a lot of times in the box. If they don’t go down and it looks like they just gave up, it’s hard to “Sell” a call like that as a penalty even if it’s deserved. However if there’s a tug on the jersey which obviously effects play and they player acts like his legs stop working, it’s considered usually by players and coaches as acceptable embellishment. I can remember only once ever giving a yellow card to someone for diving, when they acted like they got hit in the face and there was no contact. I just don’t do it often because players and teams figure out immediately that I’m not interested, and they usually don’t try it again. Just a calm gesture for the player to get back up and keep playing is usually all that’s needed, it’s also appreciated, as opposed to giving out cards.
That being said I’d really have to see video of this Montero thing. From the picture though, there’s only a very very slim chance that isn’t a foul.
Posted from
United States -
I read what the coach was mad about, I think what he was suggesting was that Montero dragged his feet (dived), in order to make sure Hartmans arms caught him. Watching the video I don’t think that was the case, and certainly in real time the referee would have to be super human in order to determine that. Also Montero was clearly onsides which was another argument brought up.
Looks like at least on this call, the refs got it right, sorry to disappoint you Sounders fans
Posted from
United States -
I’m not sure. I’ve actually had it go the other way, where I was pushed off the ball unfairly and fell over, but the ref didn’t call it because “he is smaller than you, you clearly dove.” If refs take what should have happened when two players collide into account, they will inevitably miss true fouls.
I think the best way is for the linemen to be more involved – maybe even have an extra two linemen whose sole responsibility is to assist the ref in calling fouls. That or use instant replay (GASP) to fix incorrect calls like in many other sports. I think just the threat that a dive or over-embellishment will be caught on camera and you can be awarded a card for it afterwards would help cut down on that sort of thing.
Short of that, I’m okay with embellishment as long as you don’t fake injury. THAT really bugs me. Swing your arms when you trip or whatever, okay, but don’t act like you’ve been shot when you’re hit with an elbow.
Posted from
United States -
John – they have something in the works in UEFA where they put one referee on each endline in order to call fouls if theres a quick counter attack and the referee can’t get to the other box. Or to make calls on the goal line, to see whether or not the ball goes all the way over or not. To me that would probably fix all the problems that replay could without slowing the game down.
In Montero case, the assistant referee should not get involved, he was way too far away and had no angle on the foul.
Posted from
United States -
If there is contact and you have body position (or break on the ball) then you can embellish and should be called a foul (ala NBA). If there is no contact and you go down, that’s a dive and should be called the other way and booked. No need for the theatrics either, thats just obnoxious and where you lose alot of the casual american fans.
Posted from
United States -
That Henry clip doesn’t look like a dive to me. Drawing a foul is an important skill in soccer. If a defender steps infront of a rushing forward, the forward has the right to draw the foul. If the refs need to see you go down to the turf to make the call, then you go down to the turf.
So, in summary, you can continue your love affair with Henry.
Also, I think that there should be some process for reviewing dives after games and giving a yellow card to players who obviously fake getting fouled.
Posted from
United States -
That sort of contact isn’t a foul, and if a foul were to be called out of that it would be against Henry. It’s shoulder to shoulder contact, and if there’s anything there at all, it’s the fact that Henry charges at Puyol from behind. What makes it a mega-dive, though, is the clutching of the face, which sold the ref on a yellow card for Puyol.
But yes, I agree 100% on the post match review. If that were implemented, it would cut down on the worst abuses significantly.
Posted from
United States -
I dunno about this, I guess in some cases diving might be ok, but usually I think that diving is wrong.
It gives soccer kind of a bad name ya know?
And every time I see one of my favorite players dive and stuff I lose some respect for them because that isn’t how football(soccer) should be played
Posted from
Canada
Leave a Reply
If you have not commented here before, please take a moment to peruse ourCommenting Guidelines.
Home 
