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	<title>Comments on: Poll:  Is &#8220;Embellishment&#8221; (or, okay, Diving) Ever All Right?</title>
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	<description>News from Seattle MLS football team</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 00:21:25 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: armando</title>
		<link>http://seattle.theoffside.com/team-news/poll-is-embellishment-or-okay-diving-ever-okay.html#comment-1900</link>
		<dc:creator>armando</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 11:49:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattle.theoffside.com/team-news/poll-is-embellishment-or-okay-diving-ever-okay.html#comment-1900</guid>
		<description>I dunno about this, I guess in some cases diving might be ok, but usually I think that diving is wrong.

It gives soccer kind of a bad name ya know? 

And every time I see one of my favorite players dive and stuff I lose some respect for them because that isn&#039;t how football(soccer) should be played</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dunno about this, I guess in some cases diving might be ok, but usually I think that diving is wrong.</p>
<p>It gives soccer kind of a bad name ya know? </p>
<p>And every time I see one of my favorite players dive and stuff I lose some respect for them because that isn&#8217;t how football(soccer) should be played</p>
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		<title>By: CarlosT</title>
		<link>http://seattle.theoffside.com/team-news/poll-is-embellishment-or-okay-diving-ever-okay.html#comment-1895</link>
		<dc:creator>CarlosT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 03:52:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattle.theoffside.com/team-news/poll-is-embellishment-or-okay-diving-ever-okay.html#comment-1895</guid>
		<description>That sort of contact isn&#039;t a foul, and if a foul were to be called out of that it would be against Henry.  It&#039;s shoulder to shoulder contact, and if there&#039;s anything there at all, it&#039;s the fact that Henry charges at Puyol from behind.  What makes it a mega-dive, though, is the clutching of the face, which sold the ref on a yellow card for Puyol.

But yes, I agree 100% on the post match review.  If that were implemented, it would cut down on the worst abuses significantly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That sort of contact isn&#8217;t a foul, and if a foul were to be called out of that it would be against Henry.  It&#8217;s shoulder to shoulder contact, and if there&#8217;s anything there at all, it&#8217;s the fact that Henry charges at Puyol from behind.  What makes it a mega-dive, though, is the clutching of the face, which sold the ref on a yellow card for Puyol.</p>
<p>But yes, I agree 100% on the post match review.  If that were implemented, it would cut down on the worst abuses significantly.</p>
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		<title>By: Tye Durden</title>
		<link>http://seattle.theoffside.com/team-news/poll-is-embellishment-or-okay-diving-ever-okay.html#comment-1888</link>
		<dc:creator>Tye Durden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 04:28:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattle.theoffside.com/team-news/poll-is-embellishment-or-okay-diving-ever-okay.html#comment-1888</guid>
		<description>That Henry clip doesn&#039;t look like a dive to me. Drawing a foul is an important skill in soccer. If a defender steps infront of a rushing forward, the forward has the right to draw the foul. If the refs need to see you go down to the turf to make the call, then you go down to the turf. 

So, in summary, you can continue your love affair with Henry.

Also, I think that there should be some process for reviewing dives after games and giving a yellow card to players who obviously fake getting fouled.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That Henry clip doesn&#8217;t look like a dive to me. Drawing a foul is an important skill in soccer. If a defender steps infront of a rushing forward, the forward has the right to draw the foul. If the refs need to see you go down to the turf to make the call, then you go down to the turf. </p>
<p>So, in summary, you can continue your love affair with Henry.</p>
<p>Also, I think that there should be some process for reviewing dives after games and giving a yellow card to players who obviously fake getting fouled.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://seattle.theoffside.com/team-news/poll-is-embellishment-or-okay-diving-ever-okay.html#comment-1883</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 01:02:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattle.theoffside.com/team-news/poll-is-embellishment-or-okay-diving-ever-okay.html#comment-1883</guid>
		<description>If there is contact and you have body position (or break on the ball) then you can embellish and should be called a foul (ala NBA).  If there is no contact and you go down, that&#039;s a dive and should be called the other way and booked.  No need for the theatrics either, thats just obnoxious and where you lose alot of the casual american fans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If there is contact and you have body position (or break on the ball) then you can embellish and should be called a foul (ala NBA).  If there is no contact and you go down, that&#8217;s a dive and should be called the other way and booked.  No need for the theatrics either, thats just obnoxious and where you lose alot of the casual american fans.</p>
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		<title>By: Dustin</title>
		<link>http://seattle.theoffside.com/team-news/poll-is-embellishment-or-okay-diving-ever-okay.html#comment-1882</link>
		<dc:creator>Dustin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 00:31:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattle.theoffside.com/team-news/poll-is-embellishment-or-okay-diving-ever-okay.html#comment-1882</guid>
		<description>John - they have something in the works in UEFA where they put one referee on each endline in order to call fouls if theres a quick counter attack and the referee can&#039;t get to the other box. Or to make calls on the goal line, to see whether or not the ball goes all the way over or not. To me that would probably fix all the problems that replay could without slowing the game down.

In Montero case, the assistant referee should not get involved, he was way too far away and had no angle on the foul.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John &#8211; they have something in the works in UEFA where they put one referee on each endline in order to call fouls if theres a quick counter attack and the referee can&#8217;t get to the other box. Or to make calls on the goal line, to see whether or not the ball goes all the way over or not. To me that would probably fix all the problems that replay could without slowing the game down.</p>
<p>In Montero case, the assistant referee should not get involved, he was way too far away and had no angle on the foul.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://seattle.theoffside.com/team-news/poll-is-embellishment-or-okay-diving-ever-okay.html#comment-1881</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 00:21:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattle.theoffside.com/team-news/poll-is-embellishment-or-okay-diving-ever-okay.html#comment-1881</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure.  I&#039;ve actually had it go the other way, where I was pushed off the ball unfairly and fell over, but the ref didn&#039;t call it because &quot;he is smaller than you, you clearly dove.&quot; If refs take what should have happened when two players collide into account, they will inevitably miss true fouls.  

I think the best way is for the linemen to be more involved - maybe even have an extra two linemen whose sole responsibility is to assist the ref in calling fouls.  That or use instant replay (GASP) to fix incorrect calls like in many other sports.  I think just the threat that a dive or over-embellishment will be caught on camera and you can be awarded a card for it afterwards would help cut down on that sort of thing.

Short of that, I&#039;m okay with embellishment as long as you don&#039;t fake injury.  THAT really bugs me.  Swing your arms when you trip or whatever, okay, but don&#039;t act like you&#039;ve been shot when you&#039;re hit with an elbow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure.  I&#8217;ve actually had it go the other way, where I was pushed off the ball unfairly and fell over, but the ref didn&#8217;t call it because &#8220;he is smaller than you, you clearly dove.&#8221; If refs take what should have happened when two players collide into account, they will inevitably miss true fouls.  </p>
<p>I think the best way is for the linemen to be more involved &#8211; maybe even have an extra two linemen whose sole responsibility is to assist the ref in calling fouls.  That or use instant replay (GASP) to fix incorrect calls like in many other sports.  I think just the threat that a dive or over-embellishment will be caught on camera and you can be awarded a card for it afterwards would help cut down on that sort of thing.</p>
<p>Short of that, I&#8217;m okay with embellishment as long as you don&#8217;t fake injury.  THAT really bugs me.  Swing your arms when you trip or whatever, okay, but don&#8217;t act like you&#8217;ve been shot when you&#8217;re hit with an elbow.</p>
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		<title>By: Dustin</title>
		<link>http://seattle.theoffside.com/team-news/poll-is-embellishment-or-okay-diving-ever-okay.html#comment-1880</link>
		<dc:creator>Dustin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 00:17:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattle.theoffside.com/team-news/poll-is-embellishment-or-okay-diving-ever-okay.html#comment-1880</guid>
		<description>I read what the coach was mad about, I think what he was suggesting was that Montero dragged his feet (dived), in order to make sure Hartmans arms caught him. Watching the video I don&#039;t think that was the case, and certainly in real time the referee would have to be super human in order to determine that. Also Montero was clearly onsides which was another argument brought up.

Looks like at least on this call, the refs got it right, sorry to disappoint you Sounders fans :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read what the coach was mad about, I think what he was suggesting was that Montero dragged his feet (dived), in order to make sure Hartmans arms caught him. Watching the video I don&#8217;t think that was the case, and certainly in real time the referee would have to be super human in order to determine that. Also Montero was clearly onsides which was another argument brought up.</p>
<p>Looks like at least on this call, the refs got it right, sorry to disappoint you Sounders fans <img src='http://seattle.theoffside.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Dustin</title>
		<link>http://seattle.theoffside.com/team-news/poll-is-embellishment-or-okay-diving-ever-okay.html#comment-1879</link>
		<dc:creator>Dustin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 00:04:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattle.theoffside.com/team-news/poll-is-embellishment-or-okay-diving-ever-okay.html#comment-1879</guid>
		<description>In regards to the Henry video, he could&#039;ve fell down and held his chest instead. He might&#039;ve been trying to get Puyol a red card, which is of course wrong and must be punished as &quot;Simulating.&quot; As per the Laws of the Game.

As a referee I have no problem with Embellishment, I actually oftentimes like it when it happens. Players are often tugged by the shirt as they run by someone, a lot of times in the box. If they don&#039;t go down and it looks like they just gave up, it&#039;s hard to &quot;Sell&quot; a call like that as a penalty even if it&#039;s deserved. However if there&#039;s a tug on the jersey which obviously effects play and they player acts like his legs stop working, it&#039;s considered usually by players and coaches as acceptable embellishment. I can remember only once ever giving a yellow card to someone for diving, when they acted like they got hit in the face and there was no contact. I just don&#039;t do it often because players and teams figure out immediately that I&#039;m not interested, and they usually don&#039;t try it again. Just a calm gesture for the player to get back up and keep playing is usually all that&#039;s needed, it&#039;s also appreciated, as opposed to giving out cards.

That being said I&#039;d really have to see video of this Montero thing. From the picture though, there&#039;s only a very very slim chance that isn&#039;t a foul.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In regards to the Henry video, he could&#8217;ve fell down and held his chest instead. He might&#8217;ve been trying to get Puyol a red card, which is of course wrong and must be punished as &#8220;Simulating.&#8221; As per the Laws of the Game.</p>
<p>As a referee I have no problem with Embellishment, I actually oftentimes like it when it happens. Players are often tugged by the shirt as they run by someone, a lot of times in the box. If they don&#8217;t go down and it looks like they just gave up, it&#8217;s hard to &#8220;Sell&#8221; a call like that as a penalty even if it&#8217;s deserved. However if there&#8217;s a tug on the jersey which obviously effects play and they player acts like his legs stop working, it&#8217;s considered usually by players and coaches as acceptable embellishment. I can remember only once ever giving a yellow card to someone for diving, when they acted like they got hit in the face and there was no contact. I just don&#8217;t do it often because players and teams figure out immediately that I&#8217;m not interested, and they usually don&#8217;t try it again. Just a calm gesture for the player to get back up and keep playing is usually all that&#8217;s needed, it&#8217;s also appreciated, as opposed to giving out cards.</p>
<p>That being said I&#8217;d really have to see video of this Montero thing. From the picture though, there&#8217;s only a very very slim chance that isn&#8217;t a foul.</p>
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		<title>By: CarlosT</title>
		<link>http://seattle.theoffside.com/team-news/poll-is-embellishment-or-okay-diving-ever-okay.html#comment-1878</link>
		<dc:creator>CarlosT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 00:00:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattle.theoffside.com/team-news/poll-is-embellishment-or-okay-diving-ever-okay.html#comment-1878</guid>
		<description>Basically, my definition of diving is playacting in order to convince a ref that a foul occurred when in reality it didn&#039;t.  Embellishment would be selling a foul that actually did happen to make sure your team earns their remedy for the opposition&#039;s transgressions.

So no, it&#039;s not okay to go down holding your face if you get a shoulder bump that hits nowhere near your face.  However, it is okay to go down holding your face if opposition player does hit you in the face, even if it&#039;s not much more than a graze.  In the first case, the player is trying to convince the ref to call a foul that didn&#039;t happen, and in the second they&#039;re trying to make sure the ref calls a foul that did.

If refs always called perfectly called fouls, then I&#039;d be against the second case also.  But since they don&#039;t, I think it&#039;s fair to &quot;make your case&quot;, as it were.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Basically, my definition of diving is playacting in order to convince a ref that a foul occurred when in reality it didn&#8217;t.  Embellishment would be selling a foul that actually did happen to make sure your team earns their remedy for the opposition&#8217;s transgressions.</p>
<p>So no, it&#8217;s not okay to go down holding your face if you get a shoulder bump that hits nowhere near your face.  However, it is okay to go down holding your face if opposition player does hit you in the face, even if it&#8217;s not much more than a graze.  In the first case, the player is trying to convince the ref to call a foul that didn&#8217;t happen, and in the second they&#8217;re trying to make sure the ref calls a foul that did.</p>
<p>If refs always called perfectly called fouls, then I&#8217;d be against the second case also.  But since they don&#8217;t, I think it&#8217;s fair to &#8220;make your case&#8221;, as it were.</p>
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		<title>By: Laurie</title>
		<link>http://seattle.theoffside.com/team-news/poll-is-embellishment-or-okay-diving-ever-okay.html#comment-1877</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 23:30:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seattle.theoffside.com/team-news/poll-is-embellishment-or-okay-diving-ever-okay.html#comment-1877</guid>
		<description>So my question Carlos: if we go back to the original video, is it okay to go down holding your face for this kind of infraction?  

(Not judging or disagreeing, at all.  Just curious what others think.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So my question Carlos: if we go back to the original video, is it okay to go down holding your face for this kind of infraction?  </p>
<p>(Not judging or disagreeing, at all.  Just curious what others think.)</p>
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